A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
Cootie Brown wrote:If a particular religion appeals to someone and it provides them with hope & some degree of happiness, then, at least for them, it’s a good religion.
I just fainted. Cootie, you came around to my way of thinking!!
I’m nothing if not full of surprises, as opposed to some other stuff I’ve been told I’m full of too.
gordie91 wrote:It is hard to read with a blank slate but as an objectivist one method is to check and re-check my premise. If I am unable to eliminate contradictions then I must get rid of the premise and start over. Two questions that help are why do I think something is true and how do I know it to be true. That is what I mean by a blank slate. We all have perspective and comfortable places of belief but in the end have to make a choice. Now that I am orthodox, my perspective is different but instead of finding legalities it is more of living within the community. I may not understand something that is said or done but through living it out as best I can and trusting the "process" allows me to not be critical but to be receptive.
In the CoC, this is not acceptable because of the individual acceptance of rules and regulations in light of Baconism philosophy. In other words, word studies upon word studies so that we can get it right and tell others how to get it right all with the view to mimic a certain moment in time- the First Century.
Very true - agree
They cannot even state "which" church of the 1st century that is of course
Cootie Brown wrote:I can’t help but laugh when I read stuff like this. Christians attacking Christians pointing out all of their flaws, misconceptions, misinterpretations, historical inaccuracies, etc. Then pointing out how closed minded they are believing traditions rather than facts and evidence.
I find it both hunerous and a little sad when I hear a Christian asking a Mormon how they could believe such obvious non-sense. But when a non-believer points out these same flaws, inaccuracies, cult like traits, and unbelievable traditions & teachings to a Christian,...they explode with anger and issued threats of eternal damnation to anyone that dare question their Holy Scriptures or the God(s) they worship.
Christians, for some reason, believe they are exempt from having their scriptures, beliefs, and tradition critically analyzed. Why is that? Christians have no evidence what so ever that validates their beliefs, but they think their Bible is their proof and evidence that their beliefs, teaching, and traditions are literally true and historically accurate.
Historical scholars see that very differently, but then again religion is about faith not evidence. I think that means one man’s beliefs is no better or worse than another man’s, because nobody can prove a belief is true if there is no verifiable evidence to support it.
If a particular religion appeals to someone and it provides them with hope & some degree of happiness, then, at least for them, it’s a good religion.
The assumption in my writing is that the targeted/interested reader would still have a professed faith or be questioning a common "proof" used by COC adherents. This doesn't seem related to your world view. I would think COC did damage in your life if professing to have no faith and in Christianity being a proof-less religion, while yet caring enough to be sarchastic. This is consistent with COC behavior. They do exhibit many of the behaviors you describe as the nasty part of Christianity. But there are many not like that who have strong convictions based upon evidence, faith, etc. I have exhibited the negative side when I was a full-blown believer in their system, and I was on the receiving end. It is horrible because it comes from a zeal to do right and ends up being quite wrong. I have seen it annihilate the faith of many, and I would assume at some point you felt you had faith too.
I obviously disagree with your assertions, but you are free to assert away. I try my best to put forth more than just assertion in my writing and it is intended to help those struggling with these issues. I don't think mocking people on this group to be very kind.
All the best to you.
I was expressing my understanding of the Bible and the Christian faith based on my 47 years as a Christian. As well as more than a decade of studing and researching the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith based on the scholarship dedicated to the Historical Critical study of religion.
I was examining the Christian faith from a much broader perspective rather that comparing one groups beliefs and traditions with another one.
I was also also attempting to be humorous too, but I was apparently to subtle. Sorry if anyone was offended.
I actually owe the c of C a debt of gratitude WF. If not for them I would never been motivated to study and research the historical origins and evolution of the Bible and Christianity.
Last edited by Cootie Brown on Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cootie Brown wrote:I was expressing my understanding of the Bible and the Christian faith based on my 47 years as a Christian. As well as more than a decade of studing and researching the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith based on the scholarship dedicated to the Historical Critical study of religion.
I was examining the Christian faith from a much broader perspective rather that comparing one groups beliefs and traditions with another one.
I was also also attempting to be humorous too, but I was apparently to subtle. Sorry if anyone was offended.
It had nothing to do with my post to make a resource available if anyone felt it to be helpful. Wasn't related at all. Just seemed like an angry axe being ground where opportunity is seen to do so. I'm fine, thick skin, but I learned from COC interactions to just be honest and call it out when people are inappropriate. It leads to more reconciliation than less. I felt the need to point out your commentary doesn't jive with the intent I had nor did it honor the moderator posted rules. Please try to be gentle and keep in mind people don't come here to be lambasted for believing in Christianity.
Anyway I am in the sciences, and research supposed proofs of evidence for macro-evolution has been a hobby in the past, and am still in the faith. I am not pushy though, and certainly wouldn't resort to hell, fire, and brimstone. Science and God are inseparable in my view. I can answer many supposed objection if that was ever your desire. If you are still breathing it means God hasn't given up on you.
The invitation is always open to PM me.
All the best to you.
Cootie Brown wrote:I was expressing my understanding of the Bible and the Christian faith based on my 47 years as a Christian. As well as more than a decade of studing and researching the origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith based on the scholarship dedicated to the Historical Critical study of religion.
I was examining the Christian faith from a much broader perspective rather that comparing one groups beliefs and traditions with another one.
I was also also attempting to be humorous too, but I was apparently to subtle. Sorry if anyone was offended.
It had nothing to do with my post to make a resource available if anyone felt it to be helpful. Wasn't related at all. Just seemed like an angry axe being ground where opportunity is seen to do so. I'm fine, thick skin, but I learned from COC interactions to just be honest and call it out when people are inappropriate. It leads to more reconciliation than less. I felt the need to point out your commentary doesn't jive with the intent I had nor did it honor the moderator posted rules. Please try to be gentle and keep in mind people don't come here to be lambasted for believing in Christianity.
Anyway I am in the sciences, and research supposed proofs of evidence for macro-evolution has been a hobby in the past, and am still in the faith. I am not pushy though, and certainly wouldn't resort to hell, fire, and brimstone. Science and God are inseparable in my view. I can answer many supposed objection if that was( ever your desire. If you are still breathing it means God hasn't given up on you.
The invitation is always open to PM me.
All the best to you.
Your assessment of my post is essentially correct. It seems you have a desire to reveal the truth about the c of C and that’s good, but I have a desire to reveal the truth about the Bible and the Christian faith. We clearly have different goals. Not that it matters because people believe what they want to believe. Be it politics or religion people rarely change their beliefs until they develope doubt on their own. That means we are both most likely wasting our time.
Nothing I post will likely make a believer lose their faith and nothing you post will make a dedicated c of C’er leave the c of C. However, those active on this site have, for the most part, have already left the c of C, so it would seem you’re preaching to the choir, but most of the folks here are still believers. Therefore, it would seem that the odds favor me.
WalkingFreely, I did not mean to imply your information is not valuable. It does have value and your desire to bring it to the attention of those trapped in excessive religious legalism is noble and worthwhile. I apologize for making light of your efforts, that was rude and uncalled for on my part.
I am looking at religion through a very different lens and world view. I see religion as a cult that uses fear, lies, and intimidation to control and extort people. That makes me cynical of religion in general and fundamentalist versions of religion in particular.
I have information I believe is extremely valuable and I desire to bring this information to the attention of people too. All anyone can do is make people aware of information and hope they will consider it but the reality is they rarely do.
People generally will not consider new information until they become dissatisfied with the information they have. When or if that happens we can only hope they remember the information we offered them and then they decide to investigate it.
Cootie - remember, this is a Support Area of the overall Ex-board. This is not the place to confront anybody's beliefs in their own discussion, in other words.
You can start your own thread.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Cootie Brown wrote:WalkingFreely, I did not mean to imply your information is not valuable. It does have value and your desire to bring it to the attention of those trapped in excessive religious legalism is noble and worthwhile. I apologize for making light of your efforts, that was rude and uncalled for on my part.
I am looking at religion through a very different lens and world view. I see religion as a cult that uses fear, lies, and intimidation to control and extort people. That makes me cynical of religion in general and fundamentalist versions of religion in particular.
I have information I believe is extremely valuable and I desire to bring this information to the attention of people too. All anyone can do is make people aware of information and hope they will consider it but the reality is they rarely do.
People generally will not consider new information until they become dissatisfied with the information they have. When or if that happens we can only hope they remember the information we offered them and then they decide to investigate it.
Thanks Cootie for your thoughts and sentiments - it is appreciated.
It was really hard leaving COC -the mindset wasn't opened until in my opinion it was supernaturally done. I was hardcore, but was able to leave.
I consider many of them largely to be cults. Not all...but many.
