Charity story/question

[agricola]

Not a tradition. A law straight from Torah. However, the original ten percent was an annual tax or fee paid to the Temple for the support of the Temple and priests and Levites who served there. The Temple storehouse (money vault) was reportedly huge, and the Roman destruction of the Temple was almost certainly encouraged along by the prospect of seizing it (which they did).

After the destruction of the Temple, the whole structure of Judaism as a faith had to be completely restructured (this had happened before, when the Babylonians did it, so it wasn't absolutely new). Modern Judaism is an evolution from the end of Temple centered activities. Both Christianity and modern Judaism, in fact, arose during a period of flux, and both are descendants from the philosophical school within Judaism known as Pharisaism.

Yes, sorry to bust any bubbles, but the Pharisees are the good guys in this story, and Jesus - especially the gospel versions - was almost positively and certainly a Pharisee. Only the Pharisees taught resurrection of the dead, an afterlife, judgment day, heaven and the idea of the importance of obeying God 'with your heart' instead of rote ritual. No other Jewish group believed these things - they are hallmarks of Pharisaic thought. It's even mentioned in the NT, that the Sadducees (the other main group) did not believe in these things. That is true, they did not, which is why - think about it - you don't hear about any Sadducees in the audience when Jesus was talking, and you don't find any Sadducees asking questions - ever. It wasn't their thing, at all.

At any rate, after the destruction of the Temple, the scholarly opinion (and these were in fact the 'people's leaders' of the time) decided and taught:
the place of sacrifice (that is, the Temple system of daily and regular animal sacrifices) has been taken by deeds of lovingkindness.

It's in the Talmud.

So IN PLACE OF the tithe (the ten percent donation)as well as IN PLACE OF animal (and fruit and grain) sacrifices, Jews make donations to charitable causes ('deeds of lovingkindness'). Those donations can be cash or 'stuff' or volunteer time, and in fact, by traditional Jewish exegesis, it is ten percent of your AGI - your Adjusted Gross Income.

Not a tradition - or not 'just' a tradition - this is settled Jewish law.

[Ivy]

Jesus was a PHARISEE!!!???? I never realized that until now, or had forgotten it. That's so interesting. But of course he wouldn't have
been a Saducee, because then he would have been sad, like they told us in cofc. Didn't the Saducees think that when you died
you were dead all over, like Old Rover? But then again, the cofc was always ragging on the Pharisees. And of course, Rover didn't even have a shot at heaven.

There are so many things people get wrong or misunderstand.

[agricola]

The Sadducees thought you died and that was the end of it. Also the 'best religious person' was the one who was most careful to follow all the rules and be a good Temple supporter, period. No 'afterlife' either reward or punishment.

Essenes seem to have been all about keeping themselves ritually pure and not associating with other people.

Pharisees - whether 'official' card carrying members or just folks inclined to support them - were the pure majority of the population of the time, and most common in the rural/small town/less rich population (Sadducees dominated in dense urban areas).

Pharisees (the word means 'separatists' or 'puritans') were the ONLY Second Temple era group which believed in an afterlife, which had an idea of a heaven and a hell, which believed there would be an End of Time and a Judgement Day. It was the Pharisees that visualized God as judge and as Father as well as king/ruler. It was the Pharisees that were concerned about whether they were observing the law in the right SPIRIT - with the heart.

It was even the Pharisees of that time that were busy arguing about exactly WHAT 'don't work on the Sabbath' really MEANT, and exactly what WERE the true grounds for divorce? One school said 'adultery only' and another taught 'anything'. So where did this Jesus guy FIT? So they asked questions - NOT to 'trick' him, but to find out where - in all the broad field of Pharisaism - did this particular guy belong?

Were the laws and traditions they lived by really 'From Sinai' and passed on orally and accurately ever since? Or was the oral Law they followed merely 'traditions of men' and not 'valid laws from God to Moses'?

That same 'oral Law' ended up getting written down a couple of centuries later, as the scholars found that too many deaths meant too much loss of information - that written version became the heart of the Talmud - the 'Mishnah' or 'repetition' of the law.

What is the mishnah? First: a quote from the Torah itself. Next: an explication of what that means, practically speaking. The rest of the Talmud proper is the 'Gemara' - the discussion: a record of sometimes lengthy and discursive, sometimes argumentative opinions by numerous ancient rabbis across a span of a few centuries, concerning different 'takes' on the initial explanation.

The mishnaic statement is often just a couple of lines, and the short initial explanation is rarely more than a couple of paragraphs, but the Gemara can go on for pages and pages.

Pick a verse of a legal statement from Torah, and I'll see if I can look it up for you.

[ena]

[quote="agricola"]The Sadducees thought you died and that was the end of it. Also the 'best religious person' was the one who was most careful to follow all the rules and be a good Temple supporter, period. No 'afterlife' either reward or punishment.
{/quote]

Good input as usual. The Sadducees apparently did not survive the fall of the second temple. I asked a Jew online about them and he looked it up in a Talmud and said the same. He was not aware of any Sadducees today. The Babylonian Talmud seems to be the most complete. It seems to be a multi-volume set more like an encyclopaedia. I have seen it available on CD rom.

Jesus believed in a resurrection. As such he was more compatible with Pharassees, They seem to have built additional constructs upon the law which he found burdensome. "Is it OK to heal on the Sabbath." They could not answer him. "Can you not haul an ox out of a ditch." That was acceptable by their rules. "So is it better to do good on the Sabbath" There are Jews who will not flip a lightswitch on Sabbath because that is work. Jesus healed on the Sabbath and they left him alone. The passage is in Luke 6. A worthwhile read.



'

[ena]

Even the Jewish law has tithes for the widows and orphans. Jesus stressed that taking care of others was important. Even if a child is not saved there is no guarantee that he won't later be. You might be the agent that helps them to survive. God uses human agents to help others. That is one of the ways prayers are answered. I saw no answers to prayers in 21 years in the CoC. Probably because there were no agents. Jesus in the king. The point was covered by Jesus. In the final day of reckoning two dispersements are made. One to everlasting life and one to the lake of fire. People that do not help others ever get what they deserve. This is consistent with Revelation if you understand it. These verses give the why? If the CoC really understood their Bibles they would not worry about whether to help children's homes or not. He is busy separating the sheep from the goats.

Matthew 25 kjv

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[SolaDude]

People that do not help others ever get what they deserve.

With one exception: the President of the United States. Maybe someday.

[ena]

People that do not help others ever get what they deserve.

With one exception: the President of the United States. Maybe someday.

While this link is not political. I would add the Trump foundation in New York violated its fiduciary duties as pertains to a non profit. Non profits are not supposed to do anything political. Trump signed checks and the AG of New York have called him on it. As such the entire Trump organization can become liable personally. As they have a money shortage they have to float loans quickly to stay alive any way. The IRS has not weighed in and this is a taxation matter because you are not supposed to use non profit money for political reasons or personal reasons. It becomes taxable and pierces the corporate veil. Trump and his adult children are in hot water. Trump has been skirting tax laws for many years. Some of the frauds involve wealth transfer. These involve his dad and hit the statute of limitations. Any way he looks good in a orange jumpsuit. They are that color in California Jails. He may serve his second term in jail. I don't pray for Trump. I pray for exposure of the rot that my country is engaged in. You only have to look around. The ways that we are fighting have no real merit. Much of them have been based on paranoia that communism works. If you attack it where is fails its starving people will bring it down. Yes, it is cruel. But sending in our troops is cruel. In the sixties I saw a White Russian ship. No doubt it was picking up rice. We grow it in the central valley. The Russians have crops dying in the fields. They killed their farmers to steal the land for collective farms. I see combines all over the US. They used to use a mower. They made rows and scooped the grain up with a it's. My mother used to run the steam engine which looked like a land based locomotive. She probaby fired it with coal. Her dad ran the threshing machine. A combine does all this at once. This changed from 1900 to 1960. My grandfather dated my grand mother in a carriage. My mom was born in 1917. As she was the oldest of three girls she helped fix the model T. Her youngest sister would hold on to the front seat when Grand Pa talked obout the rear end going out. She was not going to be left behind.

[teresa]

[derogatory term]

[ena]

People that do not help others ever get what they deserve.

With one exception: the President of the United States. Maybe someday.

He claims to be a Christian. He is not. He will get his. There is a certain amount of karma in this world such that you can create problems for yourself. Here is an example. The Trump administration tried to slow down the mail sorting system. They succeeded. The mailed ballots did not get there in a timely manner. Because they are postmarked they are valid and are being counted late. The problem is that Democratic voters often mail theirs. This has caused an effect. Trump wins have become Trump losses as late votes are counted. He thinks votes for Biden must be faked and election is being stolen for him. The Truth is that elections are never won instantly. The count often goes on for days. What makes it seem faster is that if a candidate has win margin wider than the ballots left to be counted a win is declared. The counting goes on until every vote is counted. Some states do not count mailed in ballots until the day of election. This does back up the process but stops early declarations based on an early total. They created their own problem and then claim it is in cheating. Thing will wind down after all the court stuff is settled. It might be best if this takes time. This means the less stable elements may be let down slowly. We may see some violence but I hope to see less. Anyway we still have to put up with Trump for 2 months. I hope not another 4 years.

[Ivy]

It might be best if this takes time. This means the less stable elements may be let down slowly. We may see some violence but I hope to see less. Anyway we still have to put up with Trump for 2 months. I hope not another 4 years.

ENA, my DH and I were just discussing this. My thought is this: let it take time to decide the winner of the election. The more time it takes, the closer we get to the end of Trump's term. If he is obsessed with this, maybe it takes his focus off of other evil, spiteful mischief he could be getting into. And yes, the unstable "Trump Train" folks have some time to wrap their heads around a Trump-free White House. I think that might be a good thing. We did take our sign down out of the yard after Nov 3 was over; my DH and son insisted it was safer. We have an apparent Q-Anon guy down the street not too far with white shoe polish messages (like "Texas, wake up!!!") scrawled on the windows of his older Suburban. Other people around us seem pretty stable, and my sign was never touched. Of course, now we have a Q-Anon disciple in the House of Reps, so there's that.

I did read that the Biden / Harris people have had their Secret Service protection well reinforced as we get closer to the final tally and announcement. That eases my mind a little.