No women in leadership roles

[ramennoodles]

Unlike with something like the afterlife, which is impossible to prove since very few people come back from the dead to begin with, there has been, throughout all of history recent or otherwise, examples showing that women are just as capable of men in every area, including leadership.

And yet the CoC's basis for this particular rule comes down to a bunch of scripture taken out of context. I mean, I'm probably aware of what the "real" reason is [how dare a woman try to tell a man what to do... never mind there have been women out there who have been in powerful roles in society responsible for ensuring the safety of men and women but who cares about facts?] but I don't understand how some can keep justifying this rule in the face of so many things that say otherwise.

Although I can understand why no one, man or woman, would want to be part of the leadership. Unless you enjoy the constant politics and pull for powers, which I can imagine some, man or woman, would enjoy.

It's such a stupid rule that I can't even bring myself to discuss it seriously.

[KLP]

Certainly having specific gender roles does not comport with social cultural thinking these days but why is it stupid? How is this particular concept (male leadership) it any different from any other wisdom/direction/revelation found in the Bible? Women being as capable as men really is a non-issue if it is a choice/direction from God.

Take for instance the Catholic Church...male leadership. Why would one assume an evil or flawed motive instead of assuming they are being honest when they say they are following the teachings of God?

[ramennoodles]

Why would one assume an evil or flawed motive instead of assuming they are being honest when they say they are following the teachings of God?

That... is a fair question actually, and it's really more due to what I've been through in my own life in the past few years. I've run into more than my fair share of people who have used gender segregation [and segregation in general] with some sort of ulterior motive, usually a malicious one that undermines whatever benefits they claim. Inside and outside the church.

To be honest, it never really crossed my mind that the people who enforce these type of things to not have some sort of malicious reason behind it. I guess I still have a lot of learning to do.

I still feel it's unnecessary overall though, even if it's for a genuinely honest reason.

[GuitarHero]

Let's assume for one moment that I believe the Bible and put any sort of credence in its words.

The Bible is way too full of women speaking for me to let one verse of what I believe to be cultural (and Paul's opinion) cancel it all out. After all, some of the most powerful evangelists in scripture were women. Mary Magdalene was the very first to bear witness to the resurrection, and told all the male apostles about it. It's hard to miss the significance of that. Priscilla seemed to be at least a co-teacher with Aquila--no indication that she was silent. Then there are Lydia, Junia the apostle, Phoebe the deaconess... And that's not to mention Photina, the woman at the well, who it was stated went back and proclaimed Jesus to everyone who would listen. And if non-canonical church history is to be believed, eventually became a martyr due to her preaching. My perception is that the speech that was condemned...which, by the way, was also condemned for men in a separate verse...was that which was meant to cause disorder or shout down someone else who was speaking.

[MusicMan826]

Then there's the most ridiculous of all...the woman teaching a junior high Sunday school class. If one of those 12 year old boys gets baptized the woman is immediately out and a man resumes the teacher role. Because God forbid a woman have authority of a 12 year old boy.

[Opie]

I find it very interesting that the only person in the bible specifically identified as a deacon/servant of the church is a woman named Phoebe. In the CoC denomination of today, Phoebe would not be allowed to be a deacon. She wouldn't even be allowed to help serve communion, or pick up the attendance cards! It's just another example of the way that the CoC claims to have the only correct doctrine, but in reality they've missed it again.

[NeverAgain]

KLP, I think it is more accurate to say that they are (mis)using the Bible to enforce their own prejudices. As has already been thoroughly detailed, an honest reading of the Bible doesn't really relegate women to second-class church citizenship. Even if you believe the Bible is inspired. Which I don't.

In any event, common decency, ethical standards, and the moral imperatives of a just society pretty much should, and in my view do, negate any backward, sexist, and unenlightened views of writings produced 1700 to 2000 years ago.

[GMan]

I heard from someone at a lectureship that women as the fairer sex were to weak to lead.

[AtPeace]

I've really enjoyed the few times I've taken a "leadership" role at my church. Once I was asked to lead the communion meditation. They gave me the topic of the service (Jacob wrestling with the angel). I wrote a brief essay and read it.

I have no fear of public speaking (which I understand is rare). It simply doesn't bother me. I don't know why I'm different that way. And I like to write essays. And I like to do the type of comparative, analytical thinking involved in creating an essay to make a point.

So it was a natural match for my abilities and interests.

That's one example.

I remember when I first started going to my church how "noticeable" it was that there were women up front. After awhile, though, I quit noticing. At the end of a service, I wouldn't have been able to tell you how many men and how many women participated. It simply wasn't something I noticed anymore. I was glad when I got to that point. Felt good.

[Turtle]

If male domination ( you can call it sanctioned leadership all you want) is justified by the Bible, then so is slavery. I once heard a preacher say, if you take what was written for a certain people in a certain time and insist on applying absolutely it to us in today's world, you are being liberal with scripture.

Not to mention all the reasons to reject inspiration of scripture, the Bible as God's Word, and revelation to one as revelation to all.