God Gave Wine

[jeremiah]

I know there's more I'm not remembering, so help me out here. Though the frequent use of it and excessive drunkenness and addiction are spoken against in the Bible, there are many places where a little wine is encouraged, or at least ok.

Give strong drink to him who is perishing,
And wine to those who are bitter of heart.
Let him drink and forget his poverty,
And remember his misery no more. (Proverbs 31:6-7)

Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine (1 Tim.3:8)

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake. (1 Tim.5:23)

In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. 3 I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled. (Daniel 9:2-3) (3 weeks with no wine was a long time for Daniel)

He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,
And vegetation for the service of man,
That he may bring forth food from the earth,
And wine that makes glad the heart of man,
Oil to make his face shine,
And bread which strengthens man’s heart. (Psalm 104:14-15)

Then of course there's Jesus' first miracle.

What are some others? I'm trying to recall one in the Pentateuch where God actually encouraged his people to drink to celebrate.

[Lev]

Deuteronomy 14: 22-26

Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

This one is especially relevant because it counters the common COC argument that the word wine, when used in a positive context in the Bible, always refers to unfermented grape juice.

Lev

[MusicMan826]

I always laughed at how they would conveniently always say, "Well it means grape juice in that verse" whenever it made drinking a little wine acceptable. However whenever wine was used in a negative way it was always, "Well THAT verse actually means wine".

[Lev]

I always laughed at how they would conveniently always say, "Well it means grape juice in that verse" whenever it made drinking a little wine acceptable. However whenever wine was used in a negative way it was always, "Well THAT verse actually means wine".

Right, Jesus was the life of the party for making grape juice. That's why I like the Deuteronomy verse I cited above. It makes clear that it is referring to alcoholic wine.

Lev

[ena]

Right, Jesus was the life of the party for making grape juice. That's why I like the Deuteronomy verse I cited above. It makes clear that it is referring to alcoholic wine.

My grandma's obituary indicated that she was a member of the WCTU. I had to laugh her dad was a cowboy. Not a Hollywood type or a rodeo type but the real type. He at one time had trouble with alcohol. Her complaint was that she had to go without shoes because he drank up the money. He was sober when I knew him. After all his daughter cared for him in his old age. That family line is full of long livers. Both my grandma and mom died at 91 He was born in 1870 and died in the mid 1950's when I was about 10. I do remember him. He ate not with a fork or spoon but with a knife. Probably because he did not have them. On horseback you do not carry unnecessary stuff. He was once asked if he carried a sixgun. "Yep! Mostly for 4 legged and no legged critters." Probably coyotes and snakes. He was a small man perfect for horseback. Tangling with him would be like tangling with a bobcat. I wish I had known more at that time. My great grandma died before I was born. She was French Arcadian. The British threw these people out of Canada. I think she was the beginning of a foodie line that runs at 5 generations. It once included me. My son, nephew, and youngest grandaughter love fine food. I fed her steak nauchos for dinner. That is her favorite now. I fix Mussamin Curry which is a Red Thai Curry with coconut milk. My grandaughter discovered it and went nuts over the flavor. At some Chinese grocery stores you can buy the curry paste in cans. I have scratched it out but that takes much time and is no better. It is also more expensive. If a Thai restaurant cannot make a good one I will not go back. Youtube is great to see how dishes are made. Even foreign ones. I have had many failures but several successes. One success is called grumble guts. It is hamburger onions and zucchini. It is good. I pick gross names to josh my kids. I have requests from my son for Troll Balls, which were adapted meatballs with fresh dill. Go figure! Fresh herbs do taste better. When I make stuffing I have used fresh herbs and fresh sourdough. Not that dried junk.

[Opie]

I always laughed at how they would conveniently always say, "Well it means grape juice in that verse" whenever it made drinking a little wine acceptable. However whenever wine was used in a negative way it was always, "Well THAT verse actually means wine".

Right, Jesus was the life of the party for making grape juice. That's why I like the Deuteronomy verse I cited above. It makes clear that it is referring to alcoholic wine.

Lev

Lev, the Deuteronomy verse you cited is also my "go to" verse when it comes to this issue. The majority of the CoC members that I know are so unfamiliar with the OT that they have no idea that this verse is even in the bible, and they have trouble coming up with a reply that is even half-way reasonable. Sometimes they try to fall back to the position of "the Old Law was nailed to the cross" or some other nonsense, which is not even relevant to the discussion.

[GuitarHero]

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake. (1 Tim.5:23)

This verse always makes me giggle, because the KJV says "drink no longer water," and there was a HUGE discussion in my COC about what "longer water" was, so that the good saints could avoid drinking it.

[bnot]

No one can say alcohol is totally off limits and explain their way out of these verses: Matthew ch 11: 18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." I've never heard of anyone being caller a waterbibber or a grapejuice bibber. Drunkenness is spoken against, not drinking in and of itself. (something hardline coc will never admit)

[GuitarHero]

But that Welch's is the shit! This grapejuicebibber can't get enough!

[Lev]

But that Welch's is the shit! This grapejuicebibber can't get enough!

What a lush.

Lev