I wanted to share why I continue to post on this website. If it is not apparent already to those who read my posts, The HOLY SPIRIT still has me here to help those who want to follow JESUS. He is leading me to share some of the things that He is teaching me so that I can continue to encourage those that are seeking JESUS to not give up. He really wants them to know that they can come out of this false teaching and truly have a wonderful relationship with Him. Praise GOD!
My posts are mainly about spiritual things because that is what I really wanted to read about when I first left the Campbellites and was led to this website years ago.
I am not going to be posting everything that The HOLY SPIRIT led me to write in one long post because it is about several topics.
My posts are to anyone, as JESUS spoke about numerous times in Scripture, "who has ears to hear" (Matthew 11:15; 13:9, 43; Mark 7:16; Luke 14:35, etc). These people are asking similar questions I asked when I left. I really wanted to know how and why this happened to me, and how to prevent it from ever happening to me again.
These people (as I was) are not asking questions and expecting those questions to continue to be unanswered, but are persistent in seeking an answer from The LORD. Knowing somehow that it is very important to understand why things happen and that there had to be a deeper reason. These people with ears to hear will take this spiritual knowledge that I am sharing and will go study it, (not just taking my word for it) but continually asking The LORD to help them to understand specifically why this happened to them and where to go from the point they are now.
Why I am led to post
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seekingthetruth
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:59 pm
Re: Why I am led to post
I need to go deeper regarding Jesus talking about those with an "ear to hear." When Jesus talked about those having an ear to hear, He was addressing those that were truly seeking Him. He knew then that not everyone that was coming to hear Him speak was truly seeking Him (John 6:64). He also knew that many of His disciples would eventually not follow Him anymore (John 6:66-67). That is why He spoke in parables. He was excluding those that did not have an ear to hear. (Matthew 13:10-15) Some people came to see the miracles (John 2:23), and some people just came for a free meal (John 6:26). Jesus addressed these people and their all-you-can-eat motives (John 6:27).
Just as it was back then, Jesus still knows that not everyone is truly seeking Him today as well. He knows exactly what is within the heart of each person (John 1:47; 2:24-25; Acts 1:24, 15:8).
With that said, relating to God, there are four groups that every human being on the earth, past or present fits in.
-Atheist
-Agnostic
-Following a false religion, worshipping a false god
-Those that have met and follow Jesus
The Holy Spirit needed to cover the basics in order to teach what it means spiritually. While I was following the Campbellites and even after I left them, I had no idea about these four groups.
The atheist believes that God does not exist at all. "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God..." (Psalm 14:1, 53:1).
The agnostic does not believe it is possible to know for sure that God even exists.
Those following a false religion have no interest in anything that does not fit within their beliefs. Their false religion becomes their god. Matthew 15:8, 9; Mark 7: 6-8, 13, Colossians 2:8.
The Holy Spirit taught me about this by guiding me to look at these groups in Scripture. In Exodus chapters 4-14, Pharaoh fits in the first three groups listed above. Pharaoh was an atheist. Exodus 5:2, He said, "who is the Lord that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord..."
But as God began and continued to display His power, Pharaoh went from not believing in Him at all to at least becoming agnostic in his thinking. He was personally experiencing proof that God did exist. He even told Moses to speak to The Lord on his behalf to remove His plagues (Exodus 8:8, 28; 9:27; 10:24). Some of the Egyptians also changed their thinking as well
After the magicians could not duplicate what Aaron did with his rod, they told Pharaoh that it was "the finger of God" (Exodus 8:19). 9:20, 10:7.
Of course, all of those plagues that God placed on Pharaoh and his people were to show His power over the many gods (false beliefs) that he and the Egyptians served. "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord" (Exodus 12:12). This is the third group.
God certainly showed them all who had all the power. "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them" (Exodus 7:5).
Spiritually, Pharaoh represents Satan not wanting to let anyone go to serve The Lord. "...neither will I let Israel go" (Exodus 5:2). The ten plagues is not just an interesting "story" to read to children, it represents the many gods that people served then and today as well. These gods keep people in captivity. Just as the Israelites had to place the blood of a lamb over the sides and top of their door frame (Exodus 12: 7, 13, 22-23), each Christian must be spiritually covered by Jesus’ blood today, "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,.." (Revelation 12:11). Additional Scriptures: Romans 5:9; Hebrews 13:12; 1 Peter 1:18-19; Revelation 5:9, 7:14. Until each person is rescued by Jesus and spiritually covered by His blood, each person will stay in bondage. Sadly, most for the rest of their lives.
The first three groups are influenced by Satan. They are not even aware of it. When I was a Campbellite, I was totally unaware that it was a false god that I was worshipping and serving. Looking back in my own life though, I can see the many hardships my false beliefs led to. I had so many health problems, mental issues, led to and trapped in destructive relationships, etc. Satan had a firm grasp on my life and he was not about to let go. I was spiritually dead and did not know it. Until The Holy Spirit stepped entered in and led me out and released me from all that spiritual and physical bondage. Praise God! It certainly did not happen overnight though. Leaving the Campbellites physically was just the first step. It took many years for The Holy Spirit to remove all of their false teachings.
So, the people I am addressing my posts to would be in the fourth group. These people will hear, receive, and understand spiritual things. After all, every person is going to the spiritual realm one day. It is while we are here on God's earth that we should seek God with all our hearts to prepare for our arrival to our final destination.
When a person can understand something spiritually, via The Holy Spirit, then the earthly part of it will make sense. That is why Jesus' primary way of teaching was speaking in parables (an earthly illustration with a heavenly meaning). "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:" (Matthew 13:34).
He was comparing and contrasting the physical world with the spiritual world, the temporary world with the permanent one. "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 While we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal (2 Corinthians 4:17-18).
Although Jesus' disciples did not have The Holy Spirit dwelling within them before He ascended, they did have a heart to truly listen, ask questions, receive, and keep the commandments He spoke about. These disciples were the fourth soil "good ground" He talked about in the parable of the sower. "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty" (Matthew 13:23). Additional Scriptures: Mark 4:20; Luke 8:15.
Jesus' Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom. He said so Himself when answering and explaining it to the Pharisees and to Pilate (Luke 17:20-21; John 18:36). His Kingdom will not be found in the natural world. It is not an earthly place a person is seeking. It is certainly not going into a building, sitting in the same pew every week and watching the same ritual on some raised platform.
Jesus is seeking those that have faith. Every person has to have complete faith (belief, trust) in Jesus. "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love" (Galatians 5:6).
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6).
Additional Scriptures: Habakkuk 2:4; Matthew 15:28; Mark 11:22; Acts 3:16, 11:24; Romans 1:17, 3:28, 4:11-14, Romans 5:1; 1 Corinthians 16:13; 2 Corinthians 4:13, 5:7; Galatians 5:5; Ephesians 2:8; Colossians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 3:7; 1 Timothy 1:5; Philippians 3:9; Titus 2:2; Hebrews 6:12, 10:38; James 1:6; 1John 5:4, etc.
This faith is not the Campbellites definition of faith. They have no idea what true faith is. When they talk about faith it means completely believing in and following the demonic beliefs that Thomas Campbell and Barton Stone taught until they take their last breath. They love to quote the last few words of Jesus in Revelation 2:10, "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Of course, they have taken this Scripture completely out of context to fit their idea of what faith is.
In that Scripture, Jesus was telling the Church of Smyrna what was going to happen to them. He let them know that He was allowing their tribulation and that the devil was behind it to prepare them. Their faith was going to be tested in the ultimate way. These people were going to be persecuted and killed for believing in and following Jesus. But Jesus so lovingly shared that what they were going to receive in the spiritual realm was going to be worth it.
He also told them that since they believed (had faith) in Him even if it led to their deaths, they would not have to experience the eternal pain of the second death (v 11), which is the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:6, 14; 21:8). The second death is for those that reject Jesus, and those that have never repented of their sins.
All of Jesus' followers will certainly have their faith tested. That was what was going on with the Israelites. God delivered them from their physical and spiritual bondage, from being under Pharaoh (Satan's) power and then began the test to see who was actually going to follow Him and keep His commandments (Exodus 16:4; 20:20; Deuteronomy 8:2, 16).
Faith was even required in the Old Testament, "...children in whom is no faith" (Deuteronomy 32:20). Moses was referring to those that failed the faith test. The Hebrew writer also talked about the Israelites lack of faith, "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Hebrews 4:2).
In the Old Testament, I never get tired of reading about Daniel’s faith, (6:1-28) and the faith of his three friends (3:1-30). Two examples of deep faith in the New Testament would be the woman with an issue of blood (Matthew 9:20-22; Mark 5:25-34; Luke 8:43-48). This woman believed in Jesus' power to heal her so deeply that He felt His virtue (power) drained from Him when she just touched the hem of His garment! I always wondered how she knew to do that.
Also, the Centurion's faith. (Matthew 8:5-13; Luke 7:1-10) Jesus boasted about this man's faith saying, "...I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel" (Matthew 8:10). The man told Jesus to just speak a word and his servant would healed!
And all the people in Hebrews chapter 11. All those people listed there had true faith even if it led to their physical deaths. They were commended for their faith.
Jesus' true followers must also have The Holy Spirit dwelling within them today. Jesus was explaining spiritual things to Nicodemus. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His" (Romans 8:9).
"Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit" (1 John 4:13).
Additional Scriptures: Luke 24:49; John 3:3; Acts 1:4-5, 8, 2:4, 2:38, Acts 8:14-15, 10:44-46, 11:24, 19:1-6; Romans 8:10-11, 13-16, 23, 26; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5; Ephesians 1:13, 2:22, 4:30; 1 Peter 1:11; 1 John 2:20, 27, etc.
Just as it was back then, Jesus still knows that not everyone is truly seeking Him today as well. He knows exactly what is within the heart of each person (John 1:47; 2:24-25; Acts 1:24, 15:8).
With that said, relating to God, there are four groups that every human being on the earth, past or present fits in.
-Atheist
-Agnostic
-Following a false religion, worshipping a false god
-Those that have met and follow Jesus
The Holy Spirit needed to cover the basics in order to teach what it means spiritually. While I was following the Campbellites and even after I left them, I had no idea about these four groups.
The atheist believes that God does not exist at all. "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God..." (Psalm 14:1, 53:1).
The agnostic does not believe it is possible to know for sure that God even exists.
Those following a false religion have no interest in anything that does not fit within their beliefs. Their false religion becomes their god. Matthew 15:8, 9; Mark 7: 6-8, 13, Colossians 2:8.
The Holy Spirit taught me about this by guiding me to look at these groups in Scripture. In Exodus chapters 4-14, Pharaoh fits in the first three groups listed above. Pharaoh was an atheist. Exodus 5:2, He said, "who is the Lord that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord..."
But as God began and continued to display His power, Pharaoh went from not believing in Him at all to at least becoming agnostic in his thinking. He was personally experiencing proof that God did exist. He even told Moses to speak to The Lord on his behalf to remove His plagues (Exodus 8:8, 28; 9:27; 10:24). Some of the Egyptians also changed their thinking as well
After the magicians could not duplicate what Aaron did with his rod, they told Pharaoh that it was "the finger of God" (Exodus 8:19). 9:20, 10:7.
Of course, all of those plagues that God placed on Pharaoh and his people were to show His power over the many gods (false beliefs) that he and the Egyptians served. "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord" (Exodus 12:12). This is the third group.
God certainly showed them all who had all the power. "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them" (Exodus 7:5).
Spiritually, Pharaoh represents Satan not wanting to let anyone go to serve The Lord. "...neither will I let Israel go" (Exodus 5:2). The ten plagues is not just an interesting "story" to read to children, it represents the many gods that people served then and today as well. These gods keep people in captivity. Just as the Israelites had to place the blood of a lamb over the sides and top of their door frame (Exodus 12: 7, 13, 22-23), each Christian must be spiritually covered by Jesus’ blood today, "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,.." (Revelation 12:11). Additional Scriptures: Romans 5:9; Hebrews 13:12; 1 Peter 1:18-19; Revelation 5:9, 7:14. Until each person is rescued by Jesus and spiritually covered by His blood, each person will stay in bondage. Sadly, most for the rest of their lives.
The first three groups are influenced by Satan. They are not even aware of it. When I was a Campbellite, I was totally unaware that it was a false god that I was worshipping and serving. Looking back in my own life though, I can see the many hardships my false beliefs led to. I had so many health problems, mental issues, led to and trapped in destructive relationships, etc. Satan had a firm grasp on my life and he was not about to let go. I was spiritually dead and did not know it. Until The Holy Spirit stepped entered in and led me out and released me from all that spiritual and physical bondage. Praise God! It certainly did not happen overnight though. Leaving the Campbellites physically was just the first step. It took many years for The Holy Spirit to remove all of their false teachings.
So, the people I am addressing my posts to would be in the fourth group. These people will hear, receive, and understand spiritual things. After all, every person is going to the spiritual realm one day. It is while we are here on God's earth that we should seek God with all our hearts to prepare for our arrival to our final destination.
When a person can understand something spiritually, via The Holy Spirit, then the earthly part of it will make sense. That is why Jesus' primary way of teaching was speaking in parables (an earthly illustration with a heavenly meaning). "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:" (Matthew 13:34).
He was comparing and contrasting the physical world with the spiritual world, the temporary world with the permanent one. "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 While we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal (2 Corinthians 4:17-18).
Although Jesus' disciples did not have The Holy Spirit dwelling within them before He ascended, they did have a heart to truly listen, ask questions, receive, and keep the commandments He spoke about. These disciples were the fourth soil "good ground" He talked about in the parable of the sower. "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty" (Matthew 13:23). Additional Scriptures: Mark 4:20; Luke 8:15.
Jesus' Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom. He said so Himself when answering and explaining it to the Pharisees and to Pilate (Luke 17:20-21; John 18:36). His Kingdom will not be found in the natural world. It is not an earthly place a person is seeking. It is certainly not going into a building, sitting in the same pew every week and watching the same ritual on some raised platform.
Jesus is seeking those that have faith. Every person has to have complete faith (belief, trust) in Jesus. "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love" (Galatians 5:6).
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6).
Additional Scriptures: Habakkuk 2:4; Matthew 15:28; Mark 11:22; Acts 3:16, 11:24; Romans 1:17, 3:28, 4:11-14, Romans 5:1; 1 Corinthians 16:13; 2 Corinthians 4:13, 5:7; Galatians 5:5; Ephesians 2:8; Colossians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 3:7; 1 Timothy 1:5; Philippians 3:9; Titus 2:2; Hebrews 6:12, 10:38; James 1:6; 1John 5:4, etc.
This faith is not the Campbellites definition of faith. They have no idea what true faith is. When they talk about faith it means completely believing in and following the demonic beliefs that Thomas Campbell and Barton Stone taught until they take their last breath. They love to quote the last few words of Jesus in Revelation 2:10, "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Of course, they have taken this Scripture completely out of context to fit their idea of what faith is.
In that Scripture, Jesus was telling the Church of Smyrna what was going to happen to them. He let them know that He was allowing their tribulation and that the devil was behind it to prepare them. Their faith was going to be tested in the ultimate way. These people were going to be persecuted and killed for believing in and following Jesus. But Jesus so lovingly shared that what they were going to receive in the spiritual realm was going to be worth it.
He also told them that since they believed (had faith) in Him even if it led to their deaths, they would not have to experience the eternal pain of the second death (v 11), which is the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:6, 14; 21:8). The second death is for those that reject Jesus, and those that have never repented of their sins.
All of Jesus' followers will certainly have their faith tested. That was what was going on with the Israelites. God delivered them from their physical and spiritual bondage, from being under Pharaoh (Satan's) power and then began the test to see who was actually going to follow Him and keep His commandments (Exodus 16:4; 20:20; Deuteronomy 8:2, 16).
Faith was even required in the Old Testament, "...children in whom is no faith" (Deuteronomy 32:20). Moses was referring to those that failed the faith test. The Hebrew writer also talked about the Israelites lack of faith, "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Hebrews 4:2).
In the Old Testament, I never get tired of reading about Daniel’s faith, (6:1-28) and the faith of his three friends (3:1-30). Two examples of deep faith in the New Testament would be the woman with an issue of blood (Matthew 9:20-22; Mark 5:25-34; Luke 8:43-48). This woman believed in Jesus' power to heal her so deeply that He felt His virtue (power) drained from Him when she just touched the hem of His garment! I always wondered how she knew to do that.
Also, the Centurion's faith. (Matthew 8:5-13; Luke 7:1-10) Jesus boasted about this man's faith saying, "...I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel" (Matthew 8:10). The man told Jesus to just speak a word and his servant would healed!
And all the people in Hebrews chapter 11. All those people listed there had true faith even if it led to their physical deaths. They were commended for their faith.
Jesus' true followers must also have The Holy Spirit dwelling within them today. Jesus was explaining spiritual things to Nicodemus. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His" (Romans 8:9).
"Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit" (1 John 4:13).
Additional Scriptures: Luke 24:49; John 3:3; Acts 1:4-5, 8, 2:4, 2:38, Acts 8:14-15, 10:44-46, 11:24, 19:1-6; Romans 8:10-11, 13-16, 23, 26; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5; Ephesians 1:13, 2:22, 4:30; 1 Peter 1:11; 1 John 2:20, 27, etc.
Last edited by seekingthetruth on Mon May 09, 2022 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why I am led to post
Very thorough sermon-type post, thank you, you have made your point very well. But this is a discussion board. Is there specifically anything you wish to discuss? I'm thinking that simply posting a "sermon" type post makes it difficult for anyone to respond, and most likely will turn off readers from even taking the time to read through it.
As to me, I would not know where to begin to try and "discuss" this post of yours. But perhaps discussion is not of interest to you, I don't know.
There is a second board dedicated to Christian issues that might be of interest to you: http://ex-churchofchrist.com/DiscussionBoard/
As to me, I would not know where to begin to try and "discuss" this post of yours. But perhaps discussion is not of interest to you, I don't know.
There is a second board dedicated to Christian issues that might be of interest to you: http://ex-churchofchrist.com/DiscussionBoard/
Re: Why I am led to post
I'm going to agree with Sola Dude - this is a discussion forum. However, a narrative statement of YOUR belief is certainly okay, but there should be space for people to discuss, disagree or agree, and otherwise interact.
Now I will bow out, because this isn't 'my' forum (New Paths-Christian). I'll only add - from my POV - it appears to an outside observer that you have simply excised 'the CoC' from your 'real religion' box, and inserted a different Christian denomination.
I could be wrong about that, of course.
but a hallmark of the CoC and certain other denominations (and faiths) is that it makes a claim to - not only have 'the Truth', but to be the SOLE and ONLY possessors of 'the Truth'.
Of course, I think a person ought to believe their own faith position is 'the Truth', but relegating every other faith on earth into a box labeled 'false' is - rather biased. Maybe several faiths have 'Truth', or many faiths include SOME truth? Things are really not as black and white, when dealing with people.
Now I will bow out, because this isn't 'my' forum (New Paths-Christian). I'll only add - from my POV - it appears to an outside observer that you have simply excised 'the CoC' from your 'real religion' box, and inserted a different Christian denomination.
I could be wrong about that, of course.
but a hallmark of the CoC and certain other denominations (and faiths) is that it makes a claim to - not only have 'the Truth', but to be the SOLE and ONLY possessors of 'the Truth'.
Of course, I think a person ought to believe their own faith position is 'the Truth', but relegating every other faith on earth into a box labeled 'false' is - rather biased. Maybe several faiths have 'Truth', or many faiths include SOME truth? Things are really not as black and white, when dealing with people.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Why I am led to post
I didn't post in response here because this area is for support and agreement only. This is, after all, new Paths / Christian Paths, and that is the rule as posted by Teresa; it is to be a safe place for a person on a Christian path to express themselves. My spiritual path is eclectic, so I don't normally use this section of the board. That said, I decided to go ahead since Agri and Sola posted some concerns in response. I do understand that seekingthetruth is excited about their Christian path (that's wonderful, seeking!!) and they believe that Jesus is directing them to come here and post, and instruct others in the error of their personal path. Seekingthetruth believes that others here are in error and that she/he can correct that error. Sounds very familiar if you think about it. If you believe that Jesus directs you here repeatedly, you might also want to consider that it could be for your own personal growth rather than to instruct others. We ex-cofc people have all struggled with the issues of severely damaged boundaries, and when I see this type of narrative my hackles do go up. I will tell you that that approach feels like a serious boundary violation to me, very similar to what many of us experienced in the cofc.
There are ways to be happy in one's own path while also respecting the integrity of others' spiritual paths. That's a worthy goal for all of us who have experienced a spiritually oppressive religious background. Most excofc people here have struggled mightily to be where they are today. Our peace has been very hard won, over many years. Please respect that integrity, but also have joy in your path. It can be done.
There are ways to be happy in one's own path while also respecting the integrity of others' spiritual paths. That's a worthy goal for all of us who have experienced a spiritually oppressive religious background. Most excofc people here have struggled mightily to be where they are today. Our peace has been very hard won, over many years. Please respect that integrity, but also have joy in your path. It can be done.
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
Re: Why I am led to post
I do think that everybody OUGHT to be happy in their own 'path' and of course truly SHOULD think it is the 'truest' or 'best' FOR THEM.
Since people are different, their 'truest' or 'best' paths might be different as well.
Should we then all let everybody in the world believe/practice whatever seems 'truest' or 'best' to them?
What if their beliefs and practices include genocide of people who do NOT believe/practice as they do?
What if their beliefs and practices include actions which horrify and disgust many others? (perhaps they believe in child sacrifice, or murder as a religions rite, or self-mutilation?)
I should probably move this somewhere - Moogy?
Since people are different, their 'truest' or 'best' paths might be different as well.
Should we then all let everybody in the world believe/practice whatever seems 'truest' or 'best' to them?
What if their beliefs and practices include genocide of people who do NOT believe/practice as they do?
What if their beliefs and practices include actions which horrify and disgust many others? (perhaps they believe in child sacrifice, or murder as a religions rite, or self-mutilation?)
I should probably move this somewhere - Moogy?
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Why I am led to post
So, seekingthetruth, I certainly agree with you w/r/t the CofC's perspective on faith vs faith as presented in scripture. That was probably my main issue with the CofC. Their definition of faith included many other things besides belief, making belief really meaningless in the final analysis, that is, just an "assent" to something, not a heart-changing, overwhelming life event. But the use of faith/belief in both the OT and NT was a totality or "completeness" in and of itself. It's the "faith plus" program before one can consider him or herself saved that the CofC adopted.
Many things stem from faith and exemplify or become extrapolations of faith like baptism, partaking of communion, praying, living humbly, walking with God, always directing oneself to live in the light, works, etc. But to believe we are saved by grace through faith is the primary conundrum of the CofC, causing them to do unbelievable theological back-flips to redefine that tenant of Christianity, quite frankly injecting complexity and confusion into a very simple equation.
As to the Holy Spirit, yes I agree the CofC really only had some nebulous concept of the Holy Spirit being "indwelt", and that concept seemed to me to be so fuzzy to them. I was taught you got this indwelling once you were water baptized. But then I could not reconcile that with the scripture that says anyone who proclaims Jesus as Lord does so ONLY by the Holy Spirit. Well, in the CoC you confess that Jesus is Lord BEFORE your water baptism, but obviously the CofC can't have it both ways. Either you confess via the Holy Spirit or you confess because you were told to absent the Holy Spirit, thereby contradicting scripture.
So, anyway, I'm glad that you are progressing in your faith and do agree with much of what you say. But to go into perhaps other concepts of the Holy Spirit, faith, etc. which may digress somewhat from what you have said, you would need to post in the Old Paths forum where other sides of an issue can be brought up by others, including bringing up points of disagreement with you. Again, maybe it's not your intent to enter any kind of discussion here even though it is a discussion board and you would rather post your thoughts here from time to time and just move on, and that's perfectly fine.
Many things stem from faith and exemplify or become extrapolations of faith like baptism, partaking of communion, praying, living humbly, walking with God, always directing oneself to live in the light, works, etc. But to believe we are saved by grace through faith is the primary conundrum of the CofC, causing them to do unbelievable theological back-flips to redefine that tenant of Christianity, quite frankly injecting complexity and confusion into a very simple equation.
As to the Holy Spirit, yes I agree the CofC really only had some nebulous concept of the Holy Spirit being "indwelt", and that concept seemed to me to be so fuzzy to them. I was taught you got this indwelling once you were water baptized. But then I could not reconcile that with the scripture that says anyone who proclaims Jesus as Lord does so ONLY by the Holy Spirit. Well, in the CoC you confess that Jesus is Lord BEFORE your water baptism, but obviously the CofC can't have it both ways. Either you confess via the Holy Spirit or you confess because you were told to absent the Holy Spirit, thereby contradicting scripture.
So, anyway, I'm glad that you are progressing in your faith and do agree with much of what you say. But to go into perhaps other concepts of the Holy Spirit, faith, etc. which may digress somewhat from what you have said, you would need to post in the Old Paths forum where other sides of an issue can be brought up by others, including bringing up points of disagreement with you. Again, maybe it's not your intent to enter any kind of discussion here even though it is a discussion board and you would rather post your thoughts here from time to time and just move on, and that's perfectly fine.
Re: Why I am led to post
Yes, what Soladude said.
Seekingthetruth:
I'm curious, though - maybe I missed it - but what denomination of Christianity did you end up joining? A lot of the threads in New Paths are exactly like that - describing what some PARTICULAR faith or denomination of a faith, is the poster's 'New Path', and explaining what that bunch is mostly 'about'.
This is a BIG help for newly 'out' former CoC's, who are (as we all know) very ignorant about all other denominations and religious faiths, in general. I mean, the ONLY thing I was EVER taught was that 'they are wrong and we are right' and that 'since they are wrong, there's no reason for you to learn anything about what they teach, because they are wrong'.
Alas, I am NOT paraphrasing! Those are QUOTES.
So - Baptist? Pentecostal? Quaker? I'm very sorry, but - like a lot of people actually - I rarely actually plow all the way through really LONG posts. You might want to break up important topics into segments, with nice informative titles...think of your readers as first graders with limited attention spans, and you won't be too far off.
Seekingthetruth:
I'm curious, though - maybe I missed it - but what denomination of Christianity did you end up joining? A lot of the threads in New Paths are exactly like that - describing what some PARTICULAR faith or denomination of a faith, is the poster's 'New Path', and explaining what that bunch is mostly 'about'.
This is a BIG help for newly 'out' former CoC's, who are (as we all know) very ignorant about all other denominations and religious faiths, in general. I mean, the ONLY thing I was EVER taught was that 'they are wrong and we are right' and that 'since they are wrong, there's no reason for you to learn anything about what they teach, because they are wrong'.
Alas, I am NOT paraphrasing! Those are QUOTES.
So - Baptist? Pentecostal? Quaker? I'm very sorry, but - like a lot of people actually - I rarely actually plow all the way through really LONG posts. You might want to break up important topics into segments, with nice informative titles...think of your readers as first graders with limited attention spans, and you won't be too far off.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Why I am led to post
Back in the day when I was heavily involved in charismatic Christianity, I remember hearing that If someone comes to you saying "the Lord sent me", or "the Holy Spirit sent me to say such and such to you", it had to resonate with you, the would-be recipient. Otherwise, it could likely be something coming from the mind of the person saying they were sent. If you are going to say that the Lord told you to do such and such, you have to be very careful with that.
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
Re: Why I am led to post
seeking the truth contacted me by email and said she is not looking for dialog or discussion. She said she chose an "agreement only" forum for that reason. So she won't be responding to others on this thread.
She just wants a safe place to present her views, in case there are some ex-CoC browsing the board who might benefit from her posts. She is okay if other people just ignore her posts.
agricola, seekingthetruth thought you were saying her post needed to be moved because she had violated the rules of the board, but I think you were talking about your own post?
She just wants a safe place to present her views, in case there are some ex-CoC browsing the board who might benefit from her posts. She is okay if other people just ignore her posts.
agricola, seekingthetruth thought you were saying her post needed to be moved because she had violated the rules of the board, but I think you were talking about your own post?