If you could change the coC...

[zeek]

.

[AtPeace]

What memtiger said.

[lvmaus]

There is no reason to "change" the cofc. It is collapsing in upon itself, and some day
soon will be no more.

There will always be "wars and rumors of wars" - likewise, there will always be Pharisees and the CoC.

[Phil]

I,too, think they are on their way out. It can't happen soon enough. Freedom does not live in the fundamentalist coC and their demise would set a lot of caged believers free.

The main thing I would like to see changed is their misunderstanding of grace. They give lip service to the power of grace, but really preach obedience as the way to access grace, which is diametrically opposed to how grace is explained in the NT. The NT says the "the more sin increases, the more grace increases." The coC says, "the more obedience increases, the more grace increases." The NT says that "we are saved by grace, through faith." the coC says "we are saved by grace, through obedience." They will deny this, yet when asked if one must obey commands to qualify for salvation they will say, "absolutely." HUH? So if obedience saves then grace is not needed because grace is to remove sins. If the obedient sin then they are not obedient while sinning, right? So then the question becomes: How much obedience saves, and how much sin condemns? It's a dichotomy that cannot be solved using their view of grace.

Lots more, but this is one major flaw they have in their system of reconciliation of sins.

[B.H.]

There is no reason to "change" the cofc. It is collapsing in upon itself, and some day
soon will be no more.

There will always be "wars and rumors of wars" - likewise, there will always be Pharisees and the CoC.

Just like their will always be splits and rumors of splits.

[bnot]

I,too, think they are on their way out. It can't happen soon enough. Freedom does not live in the fundamentalist coC and their demise would set a lot of caged believers free.

The main thing I would like to see changed is their misunderstanding of grace. They give lip service to the power of grace, but really preach obedience as the way to access grace, which is diametrically opposed to how grace is explained in the NT. The NT says the "the more sin increases, the more grace increases." The coC says, "the more obedience increases, the more grace increases." The NT says that "we are saved by grace, through faith." the coC says "we are saved by grace, through obedience." They will deny this, yet when asked if one must obey commands to qualify for salvation they will say, "absolutely." HUH? So if obedience saves then grace is not needed because grace is to remove sins. If the obedient sin then they are not obedient while sinning, right? So then the question becomes: How much obedience saves, and how much sin condemns? It's a dichotomy that cannot be solved using their view of grace.

Lots more, but this is one major flaw they have in their system of reconciliation of sins.

You know, Grace would be an excellent place to start. The CoC will use the word grace in sermons and bible classes, but have no understanding of it. They will throw it around because it's in the bible but end up back where they want to be which is sending people to hell and earning your salvation. I learned about grace after I started going to a "denomination"

[musicman]

I,too, think they are on their way out. It can't happen soon enough. Freedom does not live in the fundamentalist coC and their demise would set a lot of caged believers free.

The main thing I would like to see changed is their misunderstanding of grace. They give lip service to the power of grace, but really preach obedience as the way to access grace, which is diametrically opposed to how grace is explained in the NT. The NT says the "the more sin increases, the more grace increases." The coC says, "the more obedience increases, the more grace increases." The NT says that "we are saved by grace, through faith." the coC says "we are saved by grace, through obedience." They will deny this, yet when asked if one must obey commands to qualify for salvation they will say, "absolutely." HUH? So if obedience saves then grace is not needed because grace is to remove sins. If the obedient sin then they are not obedient while sinning, right? So then the question becomes: How much obedience saves, and how much sin condemns? It's a dichotomy that cannot be solved using their view of grace.

Lots more, but this is one major flaw they have in their system of reconciliation of sins.

C o C will deny teaching salvation by works, but it does just that. We heard very little about grace when I was in C o C. "Grace" really meant that one had to follow all the rules, etc..and then on judgement day hope that Jesus would say "..well, you tried the best you could, so I'll let you into Heaven."

[Ivy]

The church I was raised in, and that my parents attended until their deaths, may be in its final throes.
I occasionally hear bits and pieces from the grapevine about it. I actually feel kind of sad about it for some reason.
I'm actually glad my parents aren't having to witness the end of it; it would have been very hard for them.

[Ivy]

Phil.....your comments about the cofc teachings on "grace" and "works" are right on target. In fact,
I believe those teachings (say one thing, but in reality believe another - you are saved by grace but
if you don't work for your salvation you're going to hell) are one way in which
the cofc is crazy-making for people who are raised in it. We learn to accept intellectual
dishonesty as a fact of life; it's difficult to overcome.

[lvmaus]

C o C will deny teaching salvation by works, but it does just that. We heard very little about grace when I was in C o C. "Grace" really meant that one had to follow all the rules, etc..and then on judgement day hope that Jesus would say "..well, you tried the best you could, so I'll let you into Heaven."

Grace is definitely put on the back burner in these churches, while works is pushed to the front.

Salvation in the CoC is a minute-to-minute concept; if one sins between prayers and dies without squeezing in a quick prayer for forgiveness they are perceived as being in a world of hurt.